OOC THREAD

[Eclecticon]

Also, I've nearly dug my way out from under my in tray, so I should have a post up early tomorrow.

[tomcat]

Not that I'm quibbling in the slightest about your ruling, but I'm not sure that introductions are meant to be counted as successes for the purposes of encounter outcomes.  Otherwise you could achieve phenomenal results every time by having a sufficiently large fellowship rock up, introduce themselves and do a little dance.

Although I agree with your point, I spent the last day wrestling with what more needed done to make the intro/interaction a challenge but page 189 in the Core Rev2 left me puzzled.

It clearly says all tests need be counted - and you guys filled the SUCCESS quota table with Intro's alone. Now as loremaster, I could have called my own ruling but I am still working this game out.

Anyway, it's something I will definitely reconsider on our next encounter.

[disench4nted]

Hey guys! Sorry I haven't posted in a while, my office network started blocking the site and I keep forgetting to check up when I get home. I'll get all caught up on the posts and get back into it tonight or tomorrow. 

[Eclecticon]

Welcome back! 

[tomcat]

A question to our players regarding narrative style:

Tolkien wrote his amazing tales that told of wars, tragedy, and death of men, dwarves, elves and even Hobbits, but the detail of these things was always vague. Comparing this to a Martin style of narrative where he describes the horrors of it all - viscera, heads tarred, etc.

I wanted to know if we (Tom and I) were to increase the level of narrative to help describe the horrors of southern Mirkwood, would it change your game experience?

I mean, I love both styles of each author, but Tolkien high heroics with vague loss makes the story distinctly different...epic.

So, respond back and let us know to what level we should go so that we have a mature game (non-vulgar), but it still keeps the feel that you want.

Cool?

[GandalfOfBorg]

Being as that Tolkien went to war and being a product of that era, he left that part up to the imagination but for those of that time; it wasn't too difficult to imagine by extension the horrors of war.  Martin, today, uses the vulgarity of human depravity because it is both obscene and the average joe on his sofa chugging soda doesn't know what its like anymore to have that as part of cultural norm -- all we have are documentaries, books, the occasional news report, etc. to show it to us, but it is still something distant.

I have no problem with either but the trick has always been to provide enough detail balanced with leaving enough to the imagination.

[Telcontar]

Both excellent posts guys

[Eclecticon]

A question to our players regarding narrative style:
[SNIP]

I don't have a problem either way, as long as it doesn't degenerate into splatterpunk violence-porn.  It's Dol Guldur for crying out loud - what happens in there should be horrifying. 

[tomcat]

Cool.

Thanks for the input thus far, guys.

No, I promise that our game isn't going to the gutter - I just want you to 'feel' like your in Middle-earth and that it reads as such, but also give it a more mature depth (not that Tolkien didn't give us a mature read - at least after Fellowship).

I hope I am making sense.

[Eclecticon]

I kind of like the idea that TOR is a little less epic than The Lord of the Rings.  It's always seemed to me that it's not about epic quests to save the world.  Instead it's about saving your home and your family when the Shadow and the armies of the Eye come to where you live. 

[Telcontar]

So I have been thinking about this and waiting to see what other people have posted. There are a couple of points I want to throw out there.

First, I want Middle-earth to be a real place. So I look at the setting as the Dark Ages or the Middle Ages depending on the culture and the location being interacted with. As a history major and having a working thesis on the Dark Ages I have a certain view of how that looks to me.

Second, I wanted there to be shades of grey in certain areas. To Tolkien things are either light or they are dark. I wanted to add an element of 'realism' and perspective into those areas, but I also want the darkness to the be evil. Orcs should have no redeeming qualities, they shouldn't be misunderstood refugees, they are cut and dried malicious creatures. However, the Haradrim, the Dunlendings, folk in the Wilderland, they should be shades of grey. They exist in a difficult environment where survival of their culture is important, perspective defines them and I would like the characters to see part of that perspective in order to get a better understanding of their actions, though not necessarily agree with them.

So I have been basing a lot of the Woodmen culture, both Woodhall and Tyrant's Hill on an Anglo-Saxon, post Roman world. When characters talk about needing wives it means they will steal them if necessary from others. In a larger sense anyone not from your actual village is a potential threat against the resources that the people you grew up with may need to survive another year. There are insiders and outsiders and everything is a power struggle. This deviates a bit from what Tolkien wrote about Middle-Earth explicitly if not implied.

Lastly, Dol Guldur is a place where Sauron himself lived. It's most likely the most horrible place the characters will go during this campaign. I don't feel as though it should be scary third grade BOO hay ride. I think it should be oppressive and terrible. The stain of evil there should be self evident to the characters.

In conclusion, tone and inflection are hard in a PbP game so the written word needs to be clear. I am not saying that the game should be morbid, obscene, or depraved for this to come across. I do think that the language of Tolkien can be tunned up a bit and less unstated should be more strongly implied. I am not advocating that we go G RR Martin or True Detective Season 1 depraved, perhaps more House of Cards or Shogun (How's that for obscure?) in addressing and conveying themes. If anyone is uncool with that then I am fine with changing how I am, or will portray, the NPCs in order to achieve the same result. If something is drifting in an uncool way it can be changed or retconed. Also, if anything would impact a character directly anything that isn't PG we can run by the player first.

Fear not, I am not asking everyone to go down some rabbit hole of depravity. This is a really good group to date and there is a great campaign ahead, I just don't want someone to be upset over a misunderstanding and decide not to play. Like I said, this a PbP game so something may be interpreted differently than it was written so I wanted you guys to know where I was coming from and for you to determine the direction we go in.

[Eclecticon]

I look at the setting as the Dark Ages or the Middle Ages depending on the culture and the location being interacted with. As a history major and having a working thesis on the Dark Ages I have a certain view of how that looks to me.

Agreed.  I really like the direction that Cubicle 7 have taken with the game - most of it feels like it could fit neatly into the Volsungssaga. 

Second, I wanted there to be shades of grey in certain areas. To Tolkien things are either light or they are dark.

Here, I respectfully disagree.  The Lord of the Rings is certainly a binary light/dark world, but that's because everything's coming to a head and the Free Peoples are facing an existential threat in a way that they haven't for at least 3000 years.  I think things naturally fall into a light/dark dichotomy when Sauron is either going to be gone for good or everyone you know and love will be eaten by orcs.  His other writing has plenty of room for tragic, morally ambiguous characters.  Just look at the story (the name of which escapes me) about the King of Numenor and his wife - take out the fancy-pants names and it could be a contemporary lit-fic story about the slow dissolution of a 21st-century marriage. 

When characters talk about needing wives it means they will steal them if necessary from others.

I've been waiting for this to come up between Tyrant's Hill and Black Tarn Hall.  I mean, the gun's right there on the mantelpiece! 

Lastly, Dol Guldur is a place where Sauron himself lived. It's most likely the most horrible place the characters will go during this campaign. I don't feel as though it should be scary third grade BOO hay ride. I think it should be oppressive and terrible. The stain of evil there should be self evident to the characters.

Absolutely agreed. 

And finally:

If something is drifting in an uncool way it can be changed or retconed. Also, if anything would impact a character directly anything that isn't PG we can run by the player first.  [snip]  This is a really good group to date and there is a great campaign ahead, I just don't want someone to be upset over a misunderstanding and decide not to play.

Good of you to spell this out - especially the part about how good we are! 

[tomcat]

I am in agreement with you, Tom.

The reason I started this subject on this thread was to make sure our players get what they want out of the game. I want you guys to come here to play in Middle-earth and you feel like you're in the books. I will try to explain myself here - when I read Tolkien, I leave with a feeling of epic heroism and adventure, great loss and redemption. When I read Martin, I leave feeling like I just watched a bit of a soap opera that has one person fucking another and stabbing a third in the back. I do not say that to be negative towards Martin - just that the story style is different.

So, with the input of the others given I feel we can keep the epic story going, but we can add some more 'color' to a scene and a place that might show the horrors that it is, like Tom suggests.

As Tom said, if we drift to far and it doesn't 'feel' like a Tolkien story anymore, we right the ship. But Tom and Paul hit it on the head, we have a rich world that we should add the color to it.

[disench4nted]

I'm definitely in agreement with Telcontar in this regard. What I love most about Tolkien's writing is the overarching epicness of it. But I think a little more focus on the details would be good for an RPG. Afterall, our characters are experiencing the gritty details in first person. And I have no fear of that turning tasteless, we seem to have a pretty mature group 

[GandalfOfBorg]

And now that this has been resolved, back to our regularly-schedule programming...