Nexus' attack - round 3

[tomcat]

Ok I looked it up. the wording on the character stat block led me to believe that the force point was automatic succes. I see now that the roll still needs to suceed.

BLOCKS: I'm not seeing though where the riposte counts as a BLOCK in regard to the cumulative penalty which is why i was trying to use them in tandem. The riposte isnt really an attempt to block the attack as it is to gain an advantage from the attack itself.

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/27078549/Makashi_Riposte_unusable
The sixth post down makes me think that it doesnt. Also there is this thread:
http://www.d20radio.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8117 fourth one down.

Also since its a reaction and a reaction against the first attack would the Nexu provoke an attack of opportunity from me with each successive attack? pg32 (JATM) Lightsaber Form: "until the end of your next turn the target provokes an attack of opportunity from you if it makes an attack and is in your reach."

Going to go through these one at a time...

Sorry about the stat block - it is self-generated by the Character Excel spreadsheets we use, although tweaked by me with BBCode.

BLOCKS: I do not see where Mikashi Riposte is considered a BLOCK either, so I am retracting the penalty mod on the first Block, and reducing the second. That said, a Riposte is a parry turned into an attack, so it would seem apropos, but no big deal.

Regarding your question on Attacks of Opportunity - this benefit only comes from having the Mikashi lightsaber form talent, which is listed under the Jedi Knight class on page 218 of the CRB. The Mikashi riposte is a Force Power that could have its benefits extended if you had that lightsaber form. Does that make sense? If not, let me know.

So, to clear up what has happened...

Again the UtF roll I made for you failed. You are welcome to roll it again, but must keep your roll no matter what. Or, you can take mine and if you want, you can spend the Force Point and roll 1d6 to see if it becomes a success. If it is a success, your attack roll and damage will be applied for the Mikashi Riposte.

The two Blocks are fine, except only second one will be reduced by the -5 penalty, net results of 22 and 17; both of which are still failed attempts. So damage is suffered there.

Your attack roll of 14 is not enough to hit the DC 16, and so your damage is not applied with your standard action.

Cool? Does this all make sense? If no, give me shout. If yes, tell me if you want to use a Force Point anywhere in this round to adjust some result. It doesn't have to be used with the Riposte.

[tomcat]

Also, Sam missed with the 12 result.

I just need Logar's attack and to post for Brim and this round can be put into the history books.

[Telcontar]

  ahh ok. Well i thougth my character was going to be toast, but i see my HP amount has been updated. I'll go with the FP to adjust the roll.

Rolled 1d6 : 5, total 5

[Telcontar]

 :ooc:OK so I do 8 DMG to the nexu. thats better than nothing.

[tomcat]

Yea, Tom... sorry about the HP thing. I didn't realized that what the spreadsheet calculated carried over. Your PC, as a Jedi, starts with 30+CON mod in HP, and then gets 7+CON mod per level... or 72.

Okay, so you take 26 damage and deliver 8. Also, you use 1 Force Point. 

Wheew! This has been a bitch of a round! 

[Callowmoryne]

The nexu snarled and bit him and clawed at his new armor. Logar was immediately furious. Others in the party were being  mauled as well. He needed space from this beast. He took two steps back and fired at the thing.


Move 2 steps back
Attack Nexu2 blaster rifle

Rolled 1d20+10 : 14 + 10, total 24

Damage

Rolled 3d8+3 : 1, 7, 6 + 3, total 17

[watanabe]

  As a side note, he had originally discussed using the Makashi Riposte with a force point to negate all damage.  The wording from the JATM book and when the developers were on the Order 66 podcast indicates that when wording is written in the book like this you would:

1. Roll for the Makashi Riposte
2. If you fail then you wouldn't use a force point to negate damage
3. If you succeed then you would have the option of then using the the force point to negate all damage taken from the attack that was being riposted.
4. After the success

Also, as for Riposte being a block or not, it is a vague area.  The first instance of Riposte in Saga is in the KOTOR book, which says you block and then riposte... additionally the book includes the Improved Riposte talents for the Jedi Knight prestige class which negates the block penalty from blocking in the blocking and riposte combo.  This brings up a major rules dilemma, if you don't count Makashi Riposte as a block, then there is never a need to really ever sink talents into Riposte and Improved Riposte, as two talents being circumvented by a single force power that can be taken via a feat, defeats the whole purpose of many of the Jedi Knights prestige class dueling tree.

Really there isn't a clear answer on this, I'll send a note to one of the devs I know, see what he says.  I'd say for now to not count it as a block as is being done now, but this means no one should ever take Riposte and Improved Riposte talents. 

[tomcat]

Cool, thanks Nick!

Question though, in the Using the Force section of the CRB, it says you may only use one Force Point in a round unless specifically stated. So here is my question, can Farok spend a FP to make the UtF check a success and then spend another to negate all damage?

That was the last thing that was bugging me with all of this.

I will say that I agree with the idea that a Riposte may only be made after a Parry/Block. The Riposte is the actual attack, whereas first the defender would have had to defend himself.

Anyway, I look forward to hearing what you find out. Now, on with the show...

John - if you back away from the Nexu you will provoke an Attack of Opportunity from it. Anytime you move to, from, or through a square that is adjacent to an enemy, they may take an Attack of Opportunity. This said, I am going to roll it based on what you wrote above. I will allow you to recant the move as I know that you are still working through all the rules and that is hard to do via an electronic book.

If you change your actions, then the attack is moot. If you leave your post alone, here is what happens:

Nexu takes an Attack of Opportunity against Logar
DC 24 melee attack +8, CT -1

bite 1d20+7 : 7 + 7, total 14

damage if successful 1d6+7 : 1 + 7, total 8

Nexu 2 does take 17 damage from Logar'Dan

Brim attacks Nexu 3
Standard action
DC 16 ranged +10, CT -1, Sit mod -5, Phys mod -1

Rolled 1d20+3 : 9 + 3, total 12

damage if successful 3d4+3 : 4, 2, 1 + 3, total 10

[watanabe]

Cool, thanks Nick!

Question though, in the Using the Force section of the CRB, it says you may only use one Force Point in a round unless specifically stated. So here is my question, can Farok spend a FP to make the UtF check a success and then spend another to negate all damage?

Nope... he could use a destiny point though to try and attack again, or just flat out negate the attack hitting him period. 

[tomcat]

Cool, thanks for clearing that up, man.

[Telcontar]

  Yeah I concur. when i read the JATM entry I realized that I needed to make a UtF roll to begin with. As for it counting as a BLOCK for the cumulative -5 per attempt I could go either way. I tend to lean towards no due to the fact that even if successful your still taking  1/2 damage from the attack unless you spend the force point. But that means that it doesn't nest well with the other feats. Not that integration of materials is ever an issue with RPG games. 

[sdrotar]

  I'm not sure I've understood more than a dozen words in this entire thread... 

[watanabe]

I'm not sure I've understood more than a dozen words in this entire thread... 

I wouldn't worry about it, we are pretty much talking in a circle anyway.  You should hear some of the podcasts I listen to about Saga Edition.  Order 66 does a good job with rules breakdown.  The WotC forums... man that place is like rules lawyer central.